Exile Game Studio

Ali Shadow · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: Need help with 'Empire builders'

I have two members of my group who are 'empire builders,' and I need help discouraging them from doing so.

For those who don't know: Empire builders are players that recrute NPCs, gather massive amounts of supplies and weapons, and build armys to fight their battles for them.... Or at least that is what is happening in my game.

I have tried many things to discourage them, but they always find loop holes to build their empires. Its driving me nuts.

I need advice on how to stop this, short of killing all the natives in Hollow Earth.
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Blue Gopher · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject:

Go with it...Make an apposed charasmatic leader who gathers as many people then them. Then do a few sessions around them maybe ending in a large war/battle were your players are facing unwinable odds...beat them back alittle and if they keep doing it then have their characters captured in battle and tortured to death and make them roll new characters. Im sure if they are ruining the game for you the game master then they are ruining the game for the other players and thats not fair... If they dont get the hint ask them to stop...if they still dont get the hint then maybe its time to find some new players.
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demon_llama · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject:

they always do this?
recruit massive armies of NPC's?
aquire huge stashes of weapons and supplies?
where do they get all this stuff?

please don't take this as an "attack" or insult, and please don't take my words as being any sort of expert on the topic, but you are giving them everything they make their empire out of right?

you allow the NPC's to follow/worship them.
you create the supply chain that they steal/aquire.
you enable them to twist and turn everything.

the one thing the provide is their desire to rule the world (sounds like Dr. Horrible all over again, but without the Bad Horse Chours).

it would seem to me that reigning in your players would be first on the adjenda of things to try. getting them to play within the spirit of the rules. yes, a rule says that you can use "X" skill to "Charm" an NPC, but that takes time. just ask any guy who has a steady girlfriend. and to "charm" entire armies would be quite hard.

then throw in a setting like the Hollow Earth, where not all the people get along so well. they may "Tolerate" each other, but they are certainly not going to watch each others backs in a war. a "United Nations" might be the best hope i could see being set up, and that would be an uneasy situation at best.

then you all all those different cultures falling for the charms/diplomacy of the PC's? YA, RIGHT! many people view outsiders as outsiders. sure, they may welcome them, but rule? not in this generation.

i could ramble on along that line forever, but i think you get the picture. in my opinion, it just doesn't make sense. least not that i have seen in the few years i've been gaming.

then again, you might want to address your players, find out if they'd rather be playing CIVILIZATION or some other computer game, or maybe a board game like Warhammer or HeroScape, where they can collect and build armies/civilizations. role playing games seem to me to be geared more towards builing an individual, not his empire.

be that as it may, it seems to me that if the DM is not happy, how can the players have a fun game. i would think everyone, including the DM, would need to be happy in order to have fun at the table each game session. IMHO.

sorry i'm not much help, but the people here are good for advice. i'm sure somebody will throw something useful for you on here. good luck.

ramble mode off...
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dan daly · Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 333 votes: 22

I say go with it. Actually, the protagonists did exactly that in the Pellucidar stories.

ReaperWolf · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:

Arizona Smith · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:52 am Post subject:

First of all, again, I'd try to roll with it. but it seems like it's something they do repeatedly, so here's a few ways to handle it.

The appeal to gamer greed: "You DO realize that if you send him off to get the fabled amulet of Nin-com-poop, that he'll be the one earning experience tonight, don't you?"

The "we're busy" brush off:"Sure, we can send our soliders to go get the weapon that will save our town from this seige. But WHO WILL DEFEND US IN THE MEANTIME?"

The "I'd totally do it, but I've got this thing" coward's way out:"Go with you to a place called cracks of despair? Well, sure, I mean, you did save my life and all. Uh...let me just get my stuff..." *poof*

The "You get what you pay for" approach: "Yes, certainly our company can take care of those pesky tribesmen for you. BRING OUT THE TAC NUKES!" c.f. Avatar

The "So what exactly do you DO here" response: "Uh...boss, the town council was sort of wondering when exactly you were going to quit chatting up the local girls and help out with the war effort. And when I say 'wondering', I mean they're outside with pitchforks and Tac Nukes."

The "You give me the idol, I'll throw you the whip" double cross: "Hey, thanks for letting me come along on this trip to find the gem of ultimate power. Nah, I don't mind that you made me carry all the supplies like a pack mule, really. 'Cause it let me take all the powder out of your bullets. And poison your food. Oh, and now that I've got the gem, FEAR MY WRATH!"
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Blue Gopher · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject:

Pitchforks and TAC Nukes!!! LMAO!!!
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dan daly · Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 333 votes: 22

Note, while David Innes built an empire in ERB's Pellucidar stories, he still had to go out on adventures on his own or with a few chosen companions in order to save the love of his life, rescue his friends, or thwart nefarious villians. The pulp tradition can include empire building, but the emperor still has to be a hero in his own right.

Ali Shadow · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:13 pm Post subject:

Blue Gopher · Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject:

Tell them to go play a MMO, or other computer games seems to me that they do n ot understand the concept of a role-playing game, that it is supose to be fun for EVERYONE! IDK just my idea... Im from Huntington but no longer liveing there you kinda do live in the middle of it all...If you were willing to drive I bet there are games in Indy, or Ft Wayne...there is a gaming store in Huntington called The Collectors Box i dont know if they play HEX there but they might try it. I believe John Aynge is from Kokomo also..and i bet there are other players on the list from there too.
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Left no right, no your other left...
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Vorax Transtellaris · Joined: 31 Jul 2009 Posts: 179 Location: the Netherlands

Ali Shadow · Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject:

Update:

Starting a new campaign, and boy did I piss my empire builders off right after character creation.

They are both playing U.S. soldiers, along with another, and wanted to have a black market scam going on. One is going to play the muscle, another the supplier, and third, the runner. They then proceeded to tell me, not ask, but tell me, about the massive amount of items they aquired. Everything from a jeep to katanas to tommyguns with teak handles. I wanted to scream in frustration.

I then proceeded to tell them that thier c.o.s found out about thier scam. They have an hour till all the paperwork is finished for thier arrest. They are in a supply room packing what they can when they each feel a 'sting' on thier necks. The world becomes blurry and they black out. When they wake, all they have are thier clothes and are being told by masked men that they work for them now, and the rest of the world thinks thier dead.

I think I did good.
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K.G. Carlson · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:59 am Post subject:

I agree. Well done!

HarrierPotter · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:29 am Post subject:

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demon_llama · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: